E1 • Effective Leadership vs. Good Leadership

May 3rd, 2021

What’s the difference between an effective leader and a good leader?

 

Leaders are often evaluated by their effectiveness and ability to generate results.

But the question is: does a leader’s ability to get results from their team make them a good leader?

At the Good Leader Podcast, we believe it’s how you lead that matters most.

Effectiveness isn’t enough! Find out why in this episode!

For more information about Paradigm Shift & growing your company culture send us a message at info@paradigmshiftleadership.com

Full Episode Transcript (auto-generated errors may occur)

As leaders, it’s so easy for us to get caught up in tasks, strategies, and our to-dos. But all of those things have no value if we don’t know how to take care of the people we oversee. If strategies and tasks cause us to neglect our people, then no matter the results we’re getting, they’re worthless. So how do we lead at a high level, get incredible results, while still taking care of our people? Well, welcome to the Good Leader Podcast.

Jerrod Murr:

Here we are, Good Leader Podcast, trying to be good leaders. Well, who in the world are we and why should you be listening to us? Hopefully, because you are entertained and we bring some information to you through our own experiences, through our own reading, through our own observing, and through the interviewing of incredible guests so that you can be the best leader that you can be.

Jerrod Murr:

My name is Jerrod, and I will be your host. I am Jerrod Murr, the founder and CEO of Paradigm Shift, our platinum sponsor of this episode, actually. And, uh, at Paradigm Shift we get to do some really cool stuff. We work with educational groups all across the country, helping young people get into post-secondary education and be the best leaders they can be. We also work with corporate groups all across the country, helping them develop their culture, their team, and effectiveness. Uh, with me, I’ve got Ang. Hey, Ang?

Andrea Hyre:

Hello. Hey, Jerrod.

Jerrod Murr:

Tell us a little bit about yourself. Because you are one of the most incredible people that I’ve ever met, and have one of the weirdest series of names or nicknames ever.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

‘Cause your name has, is not-

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

… Angela-

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

… or anything that is Angie-

Andrea Hyre:

No (laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

… at all.

Andrea Hyre:

No, that’s actually what I was gonna open with. That’s my fun fact of, and anything I ever open with. So my name is actually Andrea, like Andrea, but my parents wanna make it a little complicated and just changed the pronunciation of like two letters. So Andrea is my name, most people do call me Ang. Where does that come from? I really couldn’t tell you. I mean, your guess is as good as mine. It, it was like a, I think a college name or a high school name and I guess it stuck into my professional life (laughs), you know, even for my boss and on this podcast. So if you hear, Ang, that is me they’re referring to. If you see Andrea on anything social of mine, because it’s the name I actually use, it’s the same person. I don’t have a clone.

Jerrod Murr:

(Laughs).

Andrea Hyre:

That’s me. So… (Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

Well, that’s not confusing at all. Josh, aren’t you glad you get to go second?

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

Josh Kluge, welcome to the podcast. Our sound technician and resident Renaissance man. Josh, tell the good people at home a little bit about yourself.

Josh Kluge:

Yeah. I, uh, own four horses and a bunch of-

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Josh Kluge:

… medieval suits and gallivant crosstown, wishing a bit we were still in medieval. I’m not a Renaissance man, I just, that’s, uh, my, uh, where b-, my brain went and I think a beautiful insight to my ready, fire, aim approach to life. Love having fun, love having great conversations, love this topic of what it means to be not just a leader that can get results, but a good leader of, that cares and takes care of their people along the way. So excited to be part of this.

Jerrod Murr:

And you’re gonna hear from the three of us quite a bit, and you’ll hear from other crazy cast of characters along the way and we already have some incredible interviews that I am so, so stoked about. But a little bit more into my side of the desk. Uh, I did start Paradigm Shift, um, in 2010 and have been through lots of ups and downs. Uh, before that I was a high school teacher, I was a youth pastor, I’ve been in various leadership positions across the last 20 years or so and have really enjoyed studying leadership.

Jerrod Murr:

I am kind of a leadership nerd, whether it was in high school and college being in, like, student government type groups, and then as a youth pastor and high school teacher, trying to bring in leadership traits and qualities and instill those in students, even until now. I’ve seen a lot of different things and so we’re going to be incredibly vulnerable with you. We’ll share some of our stories. We’ll share some of our insights, hopefully, that we’ve learned from those, but I’ve started and failed a business, I’ve started and uh, succeeded in business, uh, up to this point, at least, uh, you know, who knows what’s going to happen tomorrow. We have had absolute crises. We have 2020, pandemic. We live through it. We pivoted hard. We’re going to bring some of that into this, but all along the way, it’s under this idea of a good leader.

Jerrod Murr:

It is good leadership. And we really emphasize that word, good, because I believe that should be the emphasis, not actually the word leader. Are you a leader? Yes.

Josh Kluge:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jerrod Murr:

I believe that you are a leader.

Andrea Hyre:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jerrod Murr:

Every single person listening this. I don’t care how old you are, I don’t care what your position is, I don’t care what you’re doing in life, I don’t care what your job is, I don’t care. You could give me any detail about your life and I would say you are a leader. Why? I believe leadership is influence, just like the great John Maxwell said, leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. And if that is the definition, then you are influencing people around you. You might not be influencing thousands of people around you, but you, you will have an impact on this world, whether you try or not, you might as well try.

Jerrod Murr:

And the question then is not, am I a leader? You are. The question is what type of adjective are you going to put in front of your leadership? Are you a good leader? Are you a bad leader? Are you a negligent leader? Are you a selfish leader? Are you an effective leader, you know? Because I think that there can be some effective leaders, as in like goal setters, you know, making money, getting things done, but is that ultimately successful? Is that good? Is that good for themselves? Is that good for what we want? You’ll hear in future episodes where there was a time in my life I was running myself ragged and from the outside looking in, I was pretty successful, but internally I just about killed myself. It was not good. It was effective, I was getting things done, I was looking good to people, I was impressive to some people, but it was not ultimately good. When you hear the term good leadership, Josh, what do you think of? Am I striking a chord at all?

Josh Kluge:

Yeah. Oh, man, 100%. Because to be a leader, well, what are you leading? What are you running after? And it’s so easy to think that leadership means getting results and getting things done. And I do think that that is a part of it and so often it’s easy in life to jump from one extreme to the other, that is the human condition to go f-, to just constantly back and forth on the pendulum. But when I think about a good leader, it is that marriage between how do we get great results while still ensuring that we are pushing people to be healthy individually, because at the end of the day, if we choose product over people, then people don’t matter to us.

Jerrod Murr:

Mmm.

Andrea Hyre:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jerrod Murr:

Wow. Wow.

Andrea Hyre:

That’s good.

Jerrod Murr:

Josh dropping dimes. If we choose product over people, then people don’t matter to us. Wow, quote-machine, Josh Kluge.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

Ang, what do you think about when you hear the term good leadership? What’s a, what is a good leader to you?

Andrea Hyre:

I think a good leader to me is, um, somebody who can cultivate safe atmospheres for people to grow, empower them to grow and cheer them on in their failures. So I think to me, a good leader, essentially, is somebody who, whose actions line up with their words, whose visions aren’t just statements but they’re also tangible outcomes of how I know to act. The difference between a leader who’s going to say, hey, you have permission to fail here, and then completely flip out when you actually fail-

Jerrod Murr:

Wow.

Andrea Hyre:

… versus the leader who says, you have permission to fail here, and then spurs you on in your failure and how you can overcome it. I mean, to me, that is just the difference of a good, good leader or not.

Jerrod Murr:

Wow.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

That was fantastic. I love… You said cultivate safe atmospheres for people to grow. That’s what I hope we encourage people to do through this podcast and through all of our efforts online. Follow us on social media @paradigmshiftleadership. Check out what we’re doing because creating a safe atmosphere as a parent, as a friend, that’s why I say everyone’s a leader. It’s not just create a safe environment for employees or parishioners-

Josh Kluge:

Mmm.

Andrea Hyre:

Right.

Jerrod Murr:

… or for people that follow you on social, it’s create a safe environment for people around you and the atmospheres that you are placed in. That’s where you have influence.

Josh Kluge:

Wow.

Jerrod Murr:

That’s where people have influence.

Andrea Hyre:

Right.

Jerrod Murr:

Like, you are changing the world. Every single person listening to this podcast is changing someone’s world. You are influencing someone. You are changing someone’s world. It may be your children. It may be your friends. It may be your neighbor. It may be seemingly so insignificant and yet it is not. That’s The Good Leader Podcast. It is not insignificant, it is not small and it is worth owning, not denying. I’m not a leader. Oh, that’s, I’m just not a leader. Oh, I’m just never… Oh, I’m not. No, no, no, no, no. Don’t deny it, own it, own the fact. I am a leader. I have influence. I have impact. I am significant and I will do my very best with this. That’s what I hope we encourage through The Good Leader Podcast. And so if you’re listening out there, whatever position you have, whether you call it big, whether you call it small, whether other people call it big or small, all irrelevant.

Jerrod Murr:

What is relevant is your perspective and saying, I will own it, I want to be the best version of myself, I want to be all that I can be, I want to, I, I sound like an army slogan now. Be all that you can be with The Good Leader Podcast. With that, we have The Good Leader mixtape. We’re going to interview all sorts of leaders from all sorts of realms, from all sorts of enterprises and places in life and every single time we interview them, we are going to ask them a combination of six questions so that we get a mixtape over the course of this podcast of highlights of a leader, highlighted books to read highlighted actions to take, highlighted podcasts to listen to, all this stuff. So Ang is going to take it away and I’m going to be on the hot seat and she is going to develop our first Good Leader mixtape. Ang, take it away.

Andrea Hyre:

Man, if you’re on the hot seat, I want to ask more questions than just these six-

Josh Kluge:

Ah!

Andrea Hyre:

… we’ve got going on here so (laughs)…

Josh Kluge:

This about to be one of those-

Andrea Hyre:

… you better watch out (laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

… uh-

Jerrod Murr:

We’ll see where it goes.

Josh Kluge:

… all access interviews.

Andrea Hyre:

All access (laughs).

Josh Kluge:

So, Jerrod, tell me about the fifth time you filed bankruptcy.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

(Laughs).

Andrea Hyre:

All right. So we’re jumping into our mixtape questions. We have about six different tracks. In some episodes you might hear all six, uh, in other episodes you might hear one or two, it kind of depends on how we’re feeling, but we’ve got Jerrod on the hot seat and this might be the only time he answers some of these tracks so I think we’re going to go all for it. So, Jerrod Murr, number one, Jerrod Anthony Murr, Jam, as I hear some people call him-

Jerrod Murr:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrea Hyre:

… track number one. Hey, tell me what should I be reading?

Jerrod Murr:

Ooh, you should be reading books. Um, I encourage everyone-

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs), okay.

Jerrod Murr:

… to read more books. And I say that, you know, tongue-in-cheek, but seriously, there was a time in my life I was not a reader at all and then about 15 years ago I deliberately started reading. Uh, I heard a statistic one time, and 87% of statistics are made up on the spot, I’m not sure how factual it is, but the statistic I heard-

Andrea Hyre:

Sure, yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

… after school, so whether you high school or college, whatever, after you finish your level of schooling, the average American reads less than one book their entire lifetime.

Andrea Hyre:

Hmm.

Jerrod Murr:

Now I don’t know if that’s true, Ang. I know it’s hard to believe.

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

And at first you’re like, wait a minute, what? No, no, no, no.

Andrea Hyre:

I know, that, that might feel o- on brand.

Jerrod Murr:

I think so though, ’cause I know a lot of people that don’t read at all. So if you want to, seriously-

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

… if, i- if you are a student out there listening, you’re like, well, how do I be a better student? Read, read books. I’m an employee, I want to be a better employee. I don’t care what industry, read books. So I say that tongue-in-cheek, but seriously, read books. People, read books. I, I’ve heard it said you either are a reader or you work for one. So, you know, if you wanna, if you want to grow, you want to get better, read books.

Andrea Hyre:

Jerrod, does Audible count in your, in these books we’re reading? I mean, is, is that-

Jerrod Murr:

I seriously actually think it’s kind of yes and no. I- I do.

Andrea Hyre:

Right.

Jerrod Murr:

I think… ‘Cause I thought about it. I love audio books. I’m definitely a listener, so Audible counts. That counts. But I think there is some power in the written word. I think there’s, I think there’s something that happens a little deeper if we actually see it, we process it differently. I mean, certainly we could go into learning styles. I mean, some people just are not auditory learners and so, yeah, Audible probably won’t work for you very well-

Andrea Hyre:

For sure.

Jerrod Murr:

… if you’re not an auditory learner versus a visual learner, so take that into account. But I think there is, I think it’s both. So, yeah, absolutely. If you currently are not consuming information, consume information, but I would say shoot for one book a year. If you’re like, I am not reading anything, I- I think a decent goal is to say, pick up a book. I don’t care how big, I don’t care what topic, I don’t care if it’s fiction or nonfiction, I don’t care if it has to do with a specific industry that you’re in or not, but if you say, you know what, I’m going to try to read a book this year. I think that is an awesome goal.

Jerrod Murr:

And if you are not a reader at all, listen to one book this year, there are lots of resources. You mentioned Audible. Man, we live in the information age, don’t waste it all on cat videos.

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

Like, take it a step further.

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

Um, if I was to give a specific nod-

Andrea Hyre:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

Jerrod Murr:

… boy, I’m really into The Infinite Game right now by Simon Sinek.

Andrea Hyre:

He’s really into it.

Jerrod Murr:

I, I am. Not… Okay, Ang is making fun of me, do you guys hear that? Do you hear that? She’s making fun of me there-

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

… but it’s so good. Ang, okay, it’s good.

Andrea Hyre:

No, I just could have bet a million dollars that that’s what you’d say.

Jerrod Murr:

Oh, it’s a good-

Andrea Hyre:

It is good.

Jerrod Murr:

… it’s a good read.

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah, of course.

Jerrod Murr:

It’s a good read.

Andrea Hyre:

I mean, any… Yes. Simon Sinek. Anything by Simon I love, it’s great-

Jerrod Murr:

I do. I like Start with Why-

Andrea Hyre:

… it’s a really good read.

Jerrod Murr:

I like Leaders Eat Last-

Andrea Hyre:

Also a good Audible listen. It’s all-

Jerrod Murr:

It’s really good. If you’re listening out there, everyone listening to this, read The Infinite Game so we can follow up and then we can bombard Ang and let her know Jerrod’s right, she’s wrong-

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

… it is a good book, she should not make fun of me. So, yes. What should I be reading? Books.

Andrea Hyre:

But I can’t be wrong ’cause I didn’t say it was bad.

Jerrod Murr:

We heard it. We all heard it in the tone of your voice. We should be reading books, specifically The Infinite Game.

Andrea Hyre:

So you’re saying readers are leaders?

Josh Kluge:

It rhymes so it’s true.

Jerrod Murr:

I am, if you want to be, if you want to be, uh, rhymey about it. Yes. Very [inaudible 00:14:30] of you.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs). I’m actually going to put this into two tracks combined together-

Jerrod Murr:

Oh.

Andrea Hyre:

… so we’re going to do, like, track A and B just-

Jerrod Murr:

Okay. Okay.

Andrea Hyre:

… but combined.

Jerrod Murr:

Okay.

Andrea Hyre:

So we’ve got one thing, what should I start doing? And again, one more thing, what should I stop doing? So it is one thing I should start doing and what is one thing I should stop doing?

Jerrod Murr:

Okay. Here’s what you should start doing. I’m gonna issue a challenge right here to myself and to everyone listening, I’m gonna start a meaningful text per day. That’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna start a meaningful text per day. I, I was just thinking, COVID really radically changed our lives and it changed the way we interact with people, I didn’t see people as often, like, just, it just, you know, passers by, like, people that are friends of mine, but, you know, we don’t see each other all the time, but like, I’d be at church or even in the office or somewhere and it’s like, oh, well. Now, because of COVID, it’s like, I didn’t talk to that person for six months, eight mo-, I didn’t even interact with that person.

Jerrod Murr:

So at the beginning of the year I started reflecting on so many people in my life that I would like to reconnect with in just small ways, you know, hey, what’s up? How are you? So I am doing, and I, I’ve started this and I’m going to do it for the next 30 days to see what happens, , meaningful text per day. And I did one this morning and honestly really cool interaction. I reached out to a young man who worked for us when he was in college, has since graduated. I haven’t spoken to them in a while and this morning I just shot him a text. Wasn’t complicated. I just said, “Hey, you’ve been on my mind, I hope you’re doing well. I just want you to know, I’m really thankful you’re, you’re in my life, that we are friends and I’m proud of you.” Boom. Send it to him. He replied, he said, “Wow, God works in mysterious ways. You have no idea how much I need to hear this today. Thanks so much.” It was just, and that was it. It was a short interaction.

Jerrod Murr:

But, so start a meaningful text. Stop and think of people in your life that you legit care about in some way, some, to some depth, especially as you get older, you haven’t spoken to that person in months or years. I thought of one person that I used to be on staff with at a church and I was like, oh my gosh, I have not spoken to him in like a decade, I should shoot him a meaningful text. Hey, what’s up?

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

So, okay, very long answer. That’s what you should start. Stop. Here’s what you should stop doing. Stop treating clients better than your family.

Josh Kluge:

Shoot. (affirmation)

Jerrod Murr:

Stop treating clients better than your family.

Andrea Hyre:

That’s good.

Jerrod Murr:

Okay. We work with people. We do virtual events. We do trainings. If a client calls me or texts me, email, somewhere, they contact me and they ask for a certain meeting and they’re like, hey, can we meet at two o’clock today to talk about this? I will move heaven and earth to make that happen. I will. I, I, I, yes. Okay, the client needs this, let’s move heaven and earth, let’s figure it out. I- I will be at that two o’clock meeting. Versus my wife, the person that I love the most in this world, my absolute best friend, if she asks me, she will probably get a maybe, it depends, I have a client meeting, I’ve got this other thing, I’ve got this whatever.

Jerrod Murr:

Now most of us would regard emergencies, like, yeah, but if it’s an emergency and, and they understand, my point is stop making those excuses. It’s not an emergency for my client. They just asked, can you meet at two o’clock today? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, I, I will move heaven. Yes. Oh, yeah. O- Oh, absolutely. Hey, hello. Hello, you know, wife. Hello, children. Hello, people closest to me. You have to wait because this stranger has beckoned to me for a two o’clock nothing meeting. See what I’m saying? That’s what I mean.

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

Honestly, you could think about this with your staff too. Treat your staff better than you treat your clients, because they’re not going to abuse it.

Josh Kluge:

Hmm. (affirmation)

Jerrod Murr:

So stop treating your clients-

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

… better than your family. That’s what I would stop doing. If you’re listening. And I’ll take this further, if you’re a pastor, you know, stop treating your church lady better than your family. If you are any sort of leader in civic spaces or communal involvement, man, take care of those that are closest to you first. So there it is.

Andrea Hyre:

Jerrod. Tell me what is one risk worth taking?

Jerrod Murr:

Okay, now I thought about this one. Vulnerability. Vulnerability is the answer. It’ll burn you sometimes. You’ll get burned.

Josh Kluge:

Hmm.

Jerrod Murr:

Now what do you mean vulnerable, Jerrod? I mean with people with whom you work, people that you oversee, be vulnerable, tell hard truths, admit mistakes, admit faults, let them know when you don’t know, when you’re unsure, um, let them know when you’re in over your head, let them know when I, I’ve really messed up here, we’ve got to step back, I, you know, apologize quickly. All of those things, whatever, whatever those, those connotations are… The, the trick to vulnerability is, to me, and I’m no professional, I’m no Brene Brown over here, but my 2 cents on it is, it’s the things, if we’re nervous to say or scared that it might come back to bite us, yeah, that’s the thing to lean into, that’s the thing to say.

Jerrod Murr:

And, so I’ve had people ask me this, well, Jerrod, doesn’t that come back to bite you? Sometimes it does. Yes. Sometimes it does. Sometimes people will burn you. Sometimes people will betray a trust. Sometimes people will say things that are hurtful or possibly even inappropriate about you because you have opened yourself up, but it’s worth it. It’s a risk worth taking. I mean, it’s, you didn’t ask me, what’s the safest play? So the risk worth taking is the vulnerability, the, the payoff’s worth it. Life’s too short to go around in a cage.

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

You know? And I feel like when we don’t open the doors, we are, we are-

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

… creating a cage around ourselves and, uh, life’s too short to be always on guard.

Andrea Hyre:

I love it. I think it’s a risk and I think it is one of the biggest payoffs as well as a leader. So, vulnerability, it’s a good one. Who should I be listening to or following?

Jerrod Murr:

Okay. On Instagram, you know, I’m hip, I’m with it, I’m, uh, you know, following those people on Instagram. You should follow SportsCenter’s Instagram. SportsCenter on Instagram is awesome, even if you are not a sports fan. Th-, it’s so, so good. They share really cool human interest stories where it’s like, okay, I don’t care about sports, but this is interesting to me as a human, they share stuff like that, they share funny stuff. Plus if you’re not into sports, you’ll kind of stay up on sports a little bit, uh, you know, for the chit-chat. But it’s so good. It’s great. Whoever is doing SportsCenter’s Instagram, I know you’re listening to this, I just want to say you’re doing a great job, you deserve a raise.

Josh Kluge:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

So, yeah. Follow SportsCenter on Instagram.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

Do you guys follow it? What’s your favorite follow, Ang?

Andrea Hyre:

Uh, that is the goal of Instagram. N- No. No, I don’t, I don’t follow SportsCenter. My favorite follow?

Jerrod Murr:

Yeah.

Andrea Hyre:

Do you mean in terms of like marketing, like aesthetic or just the content?

Jerrod Murr:

I don’t know. You’re really complicated the question here, Ang, like, I don’t, y- you’re making up the rules. You can decide. I just, what’s your favorite follow?

Andrea Hyre:

Well, well (laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

(Laughs). You, you, if you, if you say something I’m not, I’m not-

Andrea Hyre:

Okay, this is going to be-

Jerrod Murr:

… gonna disagree with you. Like-

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs). What I was going to say is, honestly, that is the goal of a, like, a marketer or somebody building an Instagram is, you want to follow, you’re telling people to follow their Instagram-

Josh Kluge:

Hmm.

Andrea Hyre:

… even if they have no interest in the content. That is saying they’re doing something really good. So I’m gonna have to check theirs out because they’re doing something clearly I’m not. I, this is going to be, sounds so weird, but I really love their marketing and the way that they display a lot of their, their aesthetic on their feed, but their videos are quality too, is, @vouschurch in Miami, Florida-

Jerrod Murr:

Vous?

Andrea Hyre:

… has just some-

Jerrod Murr:

Are you saying, Voo? V-O-O?

Andrea Hyre:

You would think that’s how it’s spelled, but it’s not how spelled. It, V-O-U-S, Vous, Vous, Vous Church.

Jerrod Murr:

Oh, fancy. Okay. They’re very, very fancy.

Andrea Hyre:

It’s, it’s super fancy.

Jerrod Murr:

Okay.

Andrea Hyre:

And, you know, they’re pretty bougie. I’ve never gone. I don’t, I couldn’t even tell you much else about them, I just know, I mean, I’ve gotten ideas for promo videos off of their stuff and they have a really good marketing team. So that is, that is something that I like about them.

Jerrod Murr:

Very nice. Very nice.

Andrea Hyre:

I don’t know, don’t know much about their content, but, yeah-

Jerrod Murr:

That’s all right.

Andrea Hyre:

… it’s good.

Jerrod Murr:

Hey. Josh, while we’re here, what’s your favorite follow?

Josh Kluge:

I’ve had a few seconds to think about this and, uh, currently-

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs), yeah, what-

Josh Kluge:

… look at my Instagram and come up with it. So I have categories that I’ll give. For-

Andrea Hyre:

Thank you.

Josh Kluge:

… beauty and aesthetic we’ll go with @mydomaine, which is an amazing account all displaying just pe- people’s homes and beautiful, different setups that people have around the world. Absolutely great. I love that one. For, um, a good laugh, @dirtyrottenchurchkids, and I’ll just leave that there.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Josh Kluge:

And, uh, this is not me endorsing anything that is done in it, nor is it me not endorsing everything is on it-

Jerrod Murr:

(Laughs).

Josh Kluge:

… but, uh… And then there’s a really great account called, @soyouwanttotalkabout… that-

Andrea Hyre:

Mmm.

Josh Kluge:

… runs through different things that are going on in kind of social/political realities happening in America and around the world. So they talk about things like the Syrian crisis, 10 years later, where we’re at, or, uh, wrongful convictions, and I could go on and on and on, but the [crosstalk 00:23:24]-

Jerrod Murr:

I will say you guys are living way different lives than I am.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

W- (laughs). Wow. Wow. Okay. I like that rabbit trail. That’s a good mixtape. We’re creating tracks here. We got some more-

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

… we got one more track.

Andrea Hyre:

All right, this is-

Jerrod Murr:

Let’s do it.

Andrea Hyre:

… the final track and it’s super appropriate to the tracks that we’re building here. I need to know what’s on your playlist right now.

Jerrod Murr:

All right. Do you want the honest answer or do you want a podcasty answer?

Andrea Hyre:

Well, of cour-… All right. I feel like one thing we should have said The Good Leader Podcast is, is authentic. I mean, we can’t be good leaders without that. So-

Jerrod Murr:

You better believe it.

Andrea Hyre:

… I want the honest answer always here.

Jerrod Murr:

All right. My vulnerability then.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

On my playlist right now, uh,’90s country. So, uh, you know, uh, ni-, I’m a big ’90s country music fan. If we go a little bit older, actually one of my all time favorite songs is You’re the Reason God Made Oklahoma. That’s one part of my answer. It’s a phenomenal song. It never gets old. And if you’ve never heard it, do me a favor, Google it up and listen to it. It is beautiful. Uh, uh, but I also have another answer, which is still the truth-

Andrea Hyre:

Okay.

Jerrod Murr:

… honest truth-

Andrea Hyre:

Okay.

Jerrod Murr:

On my playlist, I’ve watched it more than once, I don’t know if this counts for a playlist, I think it does, it’s in my queue, uh, would be Disney+, The Imagineering Story, Disney+, The Imagineering Story. It’s a 6-part documentary.

Josh Kluge:

Hmm.

Jerrod Murr:

Starts with the creation of Disneyland all the way through, like, 2000 and I don’t know, ’18, something, whenever they opened Shanghai Disney. Awesome, awesome, awesome stuff. If you are a creator, business owner, just wantto do stuff in life, you, if you want to do stuff in life, it’s awesome. It’s so, so fascinating, ’cause you see the good, you see the bad, the ups, the downs over decades of Disney and it’s really, really cool. It seems like they’re pretty honest in it too. They don’t really gloss over some of the kind of uglier truths that have happened. And, uh, I, I just getting, I get-

Josh Kluge:

Wow.

Jerrod Murr:

… inspired every time I’ve watched it. I’m on my third time through. So I love it. It’s really, really good. But, but listen to You’re the Reason God Made Oklahoma first, before you commit to The Imagineering Story, that’s, that’s the order. Ang is really into Run-DMC, you can tell by her attire. Tracksuit.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs). Actually, Justin, Justin Bieber’s new album is where it’s at for me right now. I got to say, un-, I, I am not ashamed. Shameless plug. I mean, it’s got like multiple MLK, like, audio spots. I mean, I don’t know. It’s really good.

Jerrod Murr:

I will check it out.

Andrea Hyre:

It might be one of my favorites.

Jerrod Murr:

I will check it out. What’s the what, what song should I listen to? What should I check it out? What should I, I don’t, I have no idea.

Andrea Hyre:

You have to go MLK Interlude straight to Hold On.

Jerrod Murr:

Okay.

Andrea Hyre:

Cue it up that way. And then maybe 2 Much right after that. I’ve listened to the album way too much in case you can’t tell. I’m not trying to say he lined it up poorly, but if I was in the production studio, that is what I would have put right after MLK Interlude instead of Die for You, though I love Die for You, I would have put Hold On right after. So tell me what you think.

Jerrod Murr:

I will. You really know that album.

Andrea Hyre:

Hit us back up.

Jerrod Murr:

Yeah. Everybody listening, let us know.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

Who’s the winner? You got Ang over there with her, uh, Justin Bieber, uh, three track list or Jerrod with You’re the Reason God Made Oklahoma.

Jerrod Murr:

Ang, I love the mixtape. I love it. I love that idea.

Andrea Hyre:

It’s fun. It’s fun.

Jerrod Murr:

Are we going to do that with every interviewee? Is that we’re doing?

Andrea Hyre:

Uh, yeah, absolutely. Maybe, maybe-

Jerrod Murr:

It’s a good idea.

Andrea Hyre:

… we’ll switch up the tracks a little bit per person, but, yeah, I think we gotta mix it up.

Jerrod Murr:

You kind of look like a DJ, so that works really well.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs).

Jerrod Murr:

I mean, you got a real DJ vibe, so you’re the, you’re a good person for it, you know.

Andrea Hyre:

Today I do. Today I do look like a DJ.

Jerrod Murr:

You, well, you got the, I, I like it. It’s believable. If I showed up in the club, which you know, I go clubbing a lot.

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah, he’s-

Jerrod Murr:

… if I showed up in the club-

Andrea Hyre:

… totally, Jerrod Murr.

Jerrod Murr:

… I would look around, I’d be like, DJ-Ang.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs). Scary

Jerrod Murr:

All right. So I do love the mixtape (laughs), I do love the mixtape idea. That’s gonna be a lot of fun. Here’s what you’re going to get. All right, ladies and gentlemen, if you like this kind of quirky banter, keep listening.

Andrea Hyre:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jerrod Murr:

You are going to be in on so many inside jokes, so many opportunities to laugh. I believe that good leaders laugh. I believe that good leaders think. I believe that good leaders ponder. I believe the good leaders dream. I believe that good leaders act. This is all those things and more, this is a podcast for every leader, and everyone’s a leader, every facet. Are we going to talk about business? Yes. Are we going to talk about, uh, politics? Yes. Are we going to talk about race? Yes. Are we going to talk about things that matter to parents?. Yes. Are we going to talk about things that matter to non-parents? Yes, because we’re going to have all those people and more.

Jerrod Murr:

I want to end every episode with a, that was good, now what? Good, now what? Because if you’re going to be a good leader, it’s about action. It is about taking action. It’s about making decisions because decisions lead to action. And so I hope you make the decision to keep listening. We are going to get our legs underneath us, of course, some days may be a little more silly, some days be a little more serious. I mean, we are in the middle of conversations, we kind of, it’s such a serious conversation, we’ve actually recorded a few interviews and we keep recording interviews with Derek [Sire 00:28:30] as we talk about what does a leader do about racial tension? So that’s coming up. If you’re like me, then you find yourself, I am a white male and I’m like, what do I do? I want to be a good leader, I care about this issue and I feel paralyzed. Well, we’re going to talk about that. Ang, tell me about this incredible interview. We interviewed a guy from, where is he? Amsterdam. Is that where he’s living?

Andrea Hyre:

Oh, yeah. David Allen lives in Amsterdam now.

Jerrod Murr:

All right.

Andrea Hyre:

That was a s-, that was a great interview.

Jerrod Murr:

Yeah. If you are listening in real time then this is the, the first episode ever released and it’s coming up. If you check the, uh, wherever you get your latest podcast, it may be out there, but Getting Things Done with David Allen, it’ll change your life. So it’s about time management, but that’s what The Good Leader Podcast is. It’s a little bit practical, it’s a little bit theoretical, because leadership is both, right, Ang?

Andrea Hyre:

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Jerrod Murr:

Ang, you are not only the producer of the show, you’re also a loyal listener. And so, why do you listen? What do you want? What are you looking for? What do you want to get out of it? Let’s take the Straw Poll right now. What do we want to give the people? What do you want to get?

Andrea Hyre:

You know, if there’s one thing we have in this world right now it is a lot of leadership and a lot of lessons and a lot of where we can get that. I think one thing that differentiates this podcast and that I’m looking forward to getting out of is, I think I’ve learned the most from you through your stories and I think-

Jerrod Murr:

Oh.

Andrea Hyre:

… you can listen to a lot of podcasts where, you know, they’ll give the one, two, three, this step, this step, this step… And they’re good, I listen to them all the time, you know I do, I send you like 10 a week. So they’re all good, but I really think that you and the people you bring on have such a good way of bringing in conversation in story and landing on the practical in a way that differentiates this in my eyes from a lot of others that I listened to. So I’m, I’m looking forward to stories, I mean, where you’ve failed, where the people who we interview have failed and where they’ve succeeded and where they haven’t, you know, put their identity in either one, but how they push forward. So I think, I think all of that’s going to be really good and I’m really excited to hear it,

Jerrod Murr:

Well pull up a chair, because if you want me to share a story, I don’t mind.

Andrea Hyre:

(Laughs), yeah, I know.

Jerrod Murr:

You heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen, Ang has given us permission to share our stories. That’s exactly what we’re going to do.

Andrea Hyre:

I, I am. I am.

Jerrod Murr:

We want to share stories that hopefully help you be a good leader, because we want to hear your story and know your story and all of us are writing our stories right now. So thanks for joining us on this inaugural episode of The Good Leader Podcast. So, what next, keep listening and be a good leader.